161: The Enneagram and Speaking (ft. Sarajane Case)
Are you as obsessed with the Enneagram as I am? Guess what—your enneagram type directly effects how you approach speaking opportunities.
Today, enneagram expert Sarajane Case of Enneagram and Coffee joins me to unpack the different enneagram stances and how each enneagram type handles committing to opportunities. Listen is as we chat about our own experience with understanding our enneagrams and it's relation to our work.
If you loved this episode and it motivated you to work on more polished presentations, I’d love for you to leave a review on iTunes and tell me about your biggest takeaway. Take a screenshot of you listening on your device, post it to your Instagram Stories, and tag me @jessicarasdall.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Meet Sarajane Case
Sarajane Case is a trained Enneagram teacher, author of The Honest Enneagram and Host of the Enneagram & Coffee Podcast. She helps people to find their perfect balance between self-care and productivity so they can release shame and feel confident in how they spend their time. She does this through her online community The Brave Collective as well as corporate trainings, guest speaking and personal essays. You can find more from Sarajane at www.enneagramandcoffee.com
If you're not already a member of the academy, we'd love to invite you to apply to join The Speaking Strategy Academy. You'll get instant access to our A-Z speaking training system with video lessons, transcripts, scripts, templates, and more.... access to our live group coaching calls, personalized 1:1 feedback on your work from me, and an opportunity to present your work live in front of our community for hot seat coaching and feedback. What are you waiting for, friend? Apply today!
Unpacking the Enneagram
Truthfully, it seems like there are two kinds of enneagrams that we learn about on the internet: the enneagram, which is deep, complex, and intricate, but then there's this stereotypical version of the enneagram that can make us feel really limited.
By learning about the enneagram, we can either limit ourselves and put ourselves in a box OR we can dive deeper to unpack who we are and explore our habits and personality.
You can dive deeper into your enneagram type by learning more about the different types through books. While the quizzes are fun, they're just a starting point (and also only 30-40% accurate) and may mis-type you. It's truly up to you to learn the types and determine which one you are, because you know you better than anyone else.
Enneagram Stances
Assertive Stance
The Assertive Stance includes types 3, 7, and 8. These types are comfortable being assertive, speaking up for themselves, putting themselves out there.
Withdrawing Stance
The Withdrawing Stance includes types 4, 5, and 9. These types will pull away in tough situations and withdraw, who will be least comfortable putting themselves out there.
Compliant Stance
The Compliant Stance includes types 1, 2, and 6. These types are looking for the right way to do things. They're looking for permission, checking the morality of what they're doing, and focused on how others will perceive them.
Your Enneagram Type and Speaking (By Stance)
As you learn more about your enneagram, you'll also learn how it impacts your work, especially when it comes to speaking.
Withdrawing Stance: 4, 5, 9
Type 4: Have a deep, enriching, emotional landscape that acts as a catalyst for social change
Type 5: Are the most informed due to research, yet never feel qualified enough, so they're not sharing.
Type 9: Have a deep wisdom from listening and mediating, but also feel the need to be invisible. There is a lot of emotional healing from putting yourself out there as a nine.
Compliant Stance: 1, 2, & 6
Type 1: Have a discomfort with anger, which creates a discomfort with how they're feeling and presenting. There is a discomfort in putting yourself out there. You have to trust yourself.
Assertive Stance: 3, 7, 8
Type 7: Typically overdo things they enjoy until they don't enjoy it anymore. This can impact how you're allowing yourself to get paid vs. having the experience with speaking. This is impacted by your positivity blinders.
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Review the Transcript for this Episode
Transcript for Episode 161:
Jessica Rasdall
Learning more about ourselves as human beings and business owners and individuals can really help us lean into our strength and do our best work. And that does not stop with speaking. On today's episode, we're talking all things, the enneagram and public speaking.
Jessica Rasdall
Welcome back to another episode of The speak to scale Podcast, where we're helping small business owners just like you could grow and scale their business by speaking on stages, podcasts, webinars, and more. I'm your host, Jessica Rasul. And I am so excited to talk about today's subject. Because if you're anything like me, you love all things, personality types, Myers Briggs, enneagram, you name it. And today we're talking with my friend Sarah Jane case of enneagram, and coffee. If you have not listened to that podcast, you should head on over there as well. But the enneagram has been such an eye opening, just rabbit hole to go down for me from the way that I have learned to understand my strengths and how to lean into them, to really understanding my different team members here behind the scenes and how I can best support them and work with them to diving into understanding my clients better, what are their strengths? How can I support them? How can I meet them where they are on their unique level, and help them in a way that maybe I wouldn't want to be helped. There's so much to be learned. And when it comes to speaking, there isn't a lot of talk about how our personality type, how our core motivators, you know, all of these things play into the way we show up as a speaker, how we develop our content, how we serve our audience, how we reach out to opportunities and put ourselves out into the world. So in today's episode, I've brought in Sarah Jane, to break down what the enneagram is and how it can impact our speaking strategy. Now, fair warning, Sarah, Jane and I are both enneagram sevens. And you're going to hear a lot about our unique perspectives, our stories, what it's like for us and speaking, but we're gonna also unpacked all the other types. So no matter where you fall on this spectrum, we've got a little nugget for you. So my fellow personality nerds, let's get into today's episode.
Jessica Rasdall
Listening to the podcast is a great first step. But I want you to go take action. So if you are ready to apply everything you've learned here on the show, listen up, we took all of our best resources, like our plug and play crafting your story workbook, or how to select your speaking topics, workbook, resources on crafting your talk, finding and pitching events, we put them all together inside of the speaker scale vault, and we put them in order, so you know exactly what to do and when to do it. to scale your business with speaking, ready to unlock the entire vault, head on over to speak to scale vault comm or click the link in our show notes. But be sure to use the code podcast for a special discount from me.
Jessica Rasdall
First off, I am just so excited to chat with you today. Because there's nobody I would rather nerd out about the enneagram with in Yo I'm so pumped. I am so excited to It's gonna be so fun. Okay, so I want to just dive right in. Because I know our people listening already know, they already know about the intagram they know what it is they're ready to go. But when we're looking at people who are moving into speaking, who are already speaking, who are maybe stepping into like thought leadership roles, maybe even leadership in their organization, how does the enneagram kind of play a role in that? or more importantly, like, how does our perception of the enneagram play a role in our trajectory?
Sarajane Case
Yeah, I mean, I think I like your word perception, because I think that there is two kinds of inia grams that we learn about on the internet, right, there's like the inia gram, which is like deep and complex, and intricate. And then there's this stereotypical version of the enneagram that can make us feel really limited. So I'll give you kind of an example because we're both sevens and even more to chat with you about this. So um, and I imagine you probably attract a lot of other sevens so we'll kind of go from that space. So the stereotypical version of a seven is like sevens love to party. They love glitter, they love color. And like, sometimes, right? That could be true. Or like sevens are the ones who are gonna go up on the stage and like make jokes and like be very vibrant and like big. And that's kind of how we the perception, right? The intricate complex version of a seven is sevens are future oriented sevens can be both introverted and extroverted sevens. I like to feel good in their life and feel satisfied, which doesn't always equate to being a party animal or being like the life of the party, or being the biggest, loudest person in the room. sevens may struggle with wanting to talk about themselves more than like remembering to ask questions when other people but sevens are also very curious and interested. Yeah. So I think when we can limit ourselves by learning the inia gram through the stereotypical version, but then we can actually expand ourselves by getting into the intricate depth that is available.
Jessica Rasdall
So what about if somebody is like, I want to go deeper? I want to get into the more intricacies of this, but I'm not 100% Sure. On my tight like, sometimes I think I'm this sometimes I think that I know, you definitely have some people in our audience who are still trying to clarify where they fall.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, so honestly, I think what happens a lot of times when we get confused about our type is that we take a quiz online, and then we get our results. And we're like, Well, no, I kinda resonate, I kind of don't. And that's because the quizzes are pretty inaccurate. Like, they're literally like, 30 to 40%. accurate. So it's pretty easy. It's pretty common to miss type, especially as, like, based off of your cultural environment based off of your family dynamics. There's a lot at play, because the enneagram is motivation based. So it's hard to quiz on motivation you in, we're not always even aware of our own motivators. So the easiest way to type yourself. And honestly, the easiest way to get into the depth is to get a good book, and read the book. And I know that sounds like slow,
Jessica Rasdall
but it's, but that's what I did literally be talking about this for myself. Because I like cosign all of this.
Unknown Speaker
It is, I mean, I think you can obviously it's fun to start on the internet. And I started with like podcasts and YouTube first. But then if you really want to get into it, and you really want to be solid on your type, obviously, I think just grab a good book, and read up on the types because you know you better than anyone else. And definitely better than any of these internet quizzes. And once you read your type description in the detail and not in the stereotypes, but in the detail, you will be so known that it makes you feel like someone's reading your journal, or like someone is watching your life and quoting you just it's very intimate. So it's pretty hard to miss your type if you're really reading each description.
Jessica Rasdall
So if we are looking at types, and again, not trying to say that everybody's the same, right, because both of us are sevens. And I don't think either one of us. People would look at us and be like, Oh, yeah, they're the life of the party sevens. Raging introvert. Don't want to ever go anywhere. But I'm like, seven as they come. And I'm obsessed with being able to think quickly on my feet, and strategize and be able to see what's next. When other people can't like I love I love that I never want to be anything other than his. But when we are looking at so again, I just want to like mention, like, not trying to put a blanket statement on anybody here. But when we're looking through speaking and even just showing up in Instagram stories, you know, being the face of your company, are there certain types that it comes a little bit easier to than others? Or are there are certain people who might have to work a little bit harder, and it's okay to recognize that.
Unknown Speaker
Yes, so there's this fun thing in the inia gram called stances, we have there's three stances of the inia gram and each stance has three types. So there's the assertive stance, which is threes, sevens and eights. Then there's the withdrawing types, which are four, five and nine. And then there are the, I don't know what compliant types which are one, two, and six. So, the assertive types, three, seven and eight. We are very comfortable putting ourselves out there being assertive, you know, speaking up for ourselves put being on camera. Typically, it's not that, like other people's opinions of us are less of an indicator of how We're going to take action, then we have the withdrawing types, five, nine and four, which when faced with conflict they pull away. So in a situation where things are hard or stressful, they kind of withdraw. So that's they're going to have like probably the most the least comfort putting themselves out there, in general, and then we have the compliant types, which are going to look for the right way to do it. Is there is someone giving me permission? Is my morality giving me permission? Are people gonna think I'm prideful? You know, these kind of they're going to be aware of like, the societal expectation, or the moral expectation or their authorities expectation.
Jessica Rasdall
I love what you said there about, like, socially for, for us, was it authoritative? Yes. For being that not that we are not going to care what somebody says, or that we're not going to get nervous or uncomfortable. But that's not going to be the thing that we that makes us decide whether we take action or not.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, we're really quick to take action future oriented, driven, typically very driven, and sometimes take action faster than we should, you know, that's kind of our work is is to not jump the gun. And then yeah, the compliant heights are, are kind of essentially looking for permission. And the withdrawing types are more in internal and kind of pull away and read, you know, want to get their energy from themselves.
Jessica Rasdall
So with that, let's say, I'm not saying I'm withdrawing type, and the thought of putting myself out there submitting for an opportunity feels way too conflicting, too competitive? No, I don't want to do it. Do we just say, Well, I'm just not going to show up and serve my people? Or is there another approach,
Unknown Speaker
just like with the assertive types, where it's like beneficial for us to pause and not take action, sometimes, it is imperative that our fours fives, and nines do take action, because here's the thing, because they're withdrawing types. They're oftentimes the ones who are doing the most listening, or the most observing or the most introspection, and they have things that we all need. So much, even. And, you know, as a seven, I talk all day long, about myself about my thoughts and how I feel. And there's not really a need, right? Like, it's beneficial, but like, no one's like begging for more, you know, I mean, people, you know, what I'm trying to say,
Jessica Rasdall
but no, they want to know where you bought your shirt, and what color you're wearing.
Unknown Speaker
That's real, that's real. But there is like, an element of like, our nines have this like deep wisdom from just listening and mediating all day long, that we're missing as a society because they're not putting themselves out there. Right. And the same way with fives, fives are the most informed typically they are, they're kind of doing so much research, and learning so much, and they never quite feel qualified enough. But that's, that's preventing them from teaching the people who are waiting for the knowledge that they already possess, right. And the same way for fours fours are like this deep, Enriching, emotional landscape that they're constantly in relationship to. And we as a society heal when they show us their humanity, because we were given permission to experience our humanity, because they've shown us there's so when these withdrawing type Speak up, it's actually, in my opinion, powerful and oftentimes a catalyst for social change.
Jessica Rasdall
That's fascinating. I have goosebumps. And I'm thinking of like some of our students right now, specifically of nine and he is such a great presenter because he is, he's so focused on the people in the audience. It's not about him in any way, shape, or form. Okay, I'd love to scoot over to the next group, where were the ones fallen, because I know we have some students who they become hypercritical, sometimes that the delivery of their message can come off as abrasive. So I'd love a little input here for my ones listening.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, well, um, real quick before we move on, because you mentioned nine i wanna i want to say for nines, that the childhood wound of nine is that it's better if you're invisible. And so when it comes to being a speaker and putting yourself out there, like basically everything in your development has trained you to do the opposite and to disqualify your voice. And so there's a significant amount of emotional healing that can come from putting yourself out there. There's a lot of that's like your deep inner work is letting your voice matter and believing that you have something to contribute. And just know that like, you do, like you absolutely. Do you have done a lot of listening. There's a lot to say there. And so it's worth that kind of discomfort for sure.
Jessica Rasdall
That's beautiful. All right, and I can't wait to hear from all of our nines who are listening to this, I have a few ones that are very close to me. And sometimes they'll be like, does this come? Does this section of my talk come across, right? Or? Like, is that is that connecting, like this fear of what they're saying is too straightforward.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, so our, our once you know, you guys have this discomfort with your own anger, which actually, so when when you're angry, it actually sometimes looks like being really happy and polite. That's kind of the way that you respond to it's like, Oh, Hi, nice to see you, you know, like this, like tension underneath your smile. And so I think you're there's some element of our one sometimes are giving off a body language of that doesn't match their own awareness of their feelings. So maybe a family member is like, Hey, you, you seem really abrasive right? Now you seem really angry, but they're like, I don't know that I didn't even realize I felt this way. So that I think because it's a lived experience for a lot of our ones where there's like a disconnect between how they're presenting and how they think they're feeling that can probably imagine create some discomfort with putting yourself out there like, well, what if I look this way, or what if I'm coming off wrong, because they are used to people maybe interpreting them incorrectly. And so the first step here for our ones is really just getting really cozy with your anger, letting yourself be enraged in letting yourself feel your rage. And the way that I typically tell ones to do this is to write rage letters, just like sit down and like, write out everything that's like making you angry, and then, and then light it on fire, because fire is fun. It just kind of like releases that so that you're actually like moving those emotions through you. And so then your body language doesn't have to hold it all you get to kind of move those emotions and not kind of hold them in your shoulders and in your jaw and and clenching your fists. So that's the thing with with body language, that's a very real experience. However, there's this other element of just completely second guessing themselves, and just not trusting themselves to be delivering the message that they intend to deliver. And I think in that way, you as a one, you should know that your greatest skill, your greatest skill is motivating a crowd to do good. And to give back. So you can you can lean into that that knowledge that like you're meant, like your purpose a lot of time is to rally for a cause. So if you can trust that skill set, as well.
Jessica Rasdall
Oh, I love that so much, so much. Okay, let's come back to us. Let's come to our sevens here. Because I think they're so often there is we want to say yes to everything. Yeah, I mean, I don't because like I enjoy peace. But I think that there's a lot of times for our sevens who maybe haven't experienced the burnout yet, but the feeling of like I want to go travel, I want to do more speaking I want I want to have fun, that event looks great of maybe overextending ourselves for the sake of fun, and enjoyment and all the good things that come with opportunities. Is that just typical for us? Is there maybe some strategies we should employ to rein ourselves in so that as somebody who has been down that speaking burnout path, I know that you get to a place where it's just not fun anymore? And if I can help some other seven, but you help me help you, Evans not go there. I would love that.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, you know, I think there's two the two things that come up in my mind when I think about being a seven speaker and you can chime in as if you agree or disagree for yourself, but one being if you enjoy something, sometimes if I enjoy something, it's like, I enjoy it until I kill it. You know, it's like, Oh, it's so fun. And now it's that. So allowing there to be like some space where you can miss something is super important for sevens because the more it just becomes this like part of your like, you're overdoing it, you lose interest we get we like start to become ambivalent to things that we used to enjoy. But if we can create some space, allow ourselves to miss it. That's really beneficial. The other thing that we tend to do, I least I will speak for myself on this one. Like, I enjoy traveling so much that I wouldn't charge enough because I just wanted the experience I wanted to like, go somewhere. And so I would like undercharging that I would end up actually paying to do speaking engagements, because I just wanted to go to this new city, unlike have this experience. And I would forget that like, Oh, this is my job, I need, get paid
Jessica Rasdall
to do it. Okay, so I'm going to counter you on that, because that's a great point. Which I think which is super normal for us. But even I think for everybody, too, especially as somebody who's getting started in speaking, we will all find our reason why we want to him now for us, it's definitely going to be the like, that looks fun, I want to explore that city, my friends are going to that conference, like whatever it is. But I know for some other enneagram types, it will be things like, well, this opportunity is going to get me to the next step, or I can't say no to that host like we'll all have a reason why we overextend ourselves. So while we're on that subject, I feel like I will be a bad speaking coach. And friend, if I don't bring this up, that if all of us have been there and done that, set a budget for yourself, whether it's time or money, if you're in a position where it's important for you to be home, whether you're in a season with small kids, you're caring for someone else, you're building a new home, like whatever it might be for you, if you're in a season where time is really important. set a budget for days out of office each quarter, that's going to help you be really selective, and it gives you the freedom to like yeah, I'm going to say yes to a couple of these. But I'm only saying yes to, you know, three of them. And they're going to be the three that are in like my favorite cities. That way you don't fill up your calendar and rack up a bunch of travel expenses in like me, and somewhere you don't really need to be. And then on the flip side, if you are in a position where you're like, Well, I'm not really getting paid for speaking right now, this is a marketing activity, I'm doing this to bring new leads back into my business or I'm getting paid a minimal amount, but it's working for me. Even in that case, like you were just mentioning, you get to a point where it's not fun anymore. It's not enjoyable. For you, I would set a budget for how much are you willing to invest in your speaking each quarter, it really helps to be more selective about where you're going to spend your time and what events you choose to go all in on. Because man, I'm with you. I've you know, you get to the end of the year and rack up more travel expenses for speaking than some people even make in their business for the year. And in that moment. It's like it's just one flight, right? Like I'm racking up rewards points, but at the end of the year, it's not.
Unknown Speaker
And can I tell you a little story? Yes, I love stories. You might hear like in my voice people who are listening like oh, I sound a little congested, or I sound like I'm having a maybe like a hard time breathing. Well, this kind of takes us to the year 2019 where type seven Sarah Jane said yes to everything and didn't have like a I love the idea of like time out of the office like days a lot it because that I was just saying yes to every opportunity at the time to good to me. And I was qualifying it based off of like, does, how does this benefit me? Is this going to be fun? Is this going to pay me enough to make it worth it? You know, but I wasn't looking at where these lined up on my calendar at all. So starting in July, my son My grandfather passed away in July. And then I spent two weeks right after that. in Copenhagen writing a book came home. The day I arrived home from Copenhagen, went to speak at a conference where I met you then went straight from there, which was three hours away from my home. So I flew in from Copenhagen. My husband picked me up from the airport, we had breakfast with our kiddo and then we drove three hours to speak at night speak at the conference. And then I was at that conference. And then then then from that point on until the end of August, I traveled every single week. In and out. I flew every single week. And then in October. I got sick I had I'm pretty sure COVID but maybe the flu who knows. And then I went trick or treating. Sick like full on. Sorry, I was super spreader, didn't know what I was doing. Went to a Halloween party and the next morning, I flew out to go speak somewhere else. And then I was gone for every single week from that point on for two months and was sick that whole time never got better. And I'm still recovering, right like two years later. I'm still recovering from my year of severing out on speaking Ah minutes, because it's my belief that like, I just did not stop, my body could not recover. Like I remember being in an airport, leaning on my suitcase, with full on pneumonia, not knowing I had pneumonia because I just didn't have time to go to the doctor. So just like leaning on my suitcase, like, hardly able to stand up and texting with my book, my publishing company about this byline of my book or whatever, just kind of like that is not the way to live, right. And as someone who is sevens, we prioritize life satisfaction. But we, because we're trying to do everything we're trying to, like, not miss out on any opportunity, not miss out on any fun experience, we actually end up riding ourselves out of an enjoyable life. And because of that, kind of like, over like that FOMO honestly, like trying to do it all and be everywhere. Like I've had two years of not being able to live a full life. And, and I think that's how sevens we pride ourselves out of our our pleasure.
Jessica Rasdall
So many. I mean, same. I'm so sorry. And I know it's been a long journey to recovery. But same thing, like I started falling apart. Now. It was like, why, why are all these things happening and just kept ignoring it, I'm not going to the doctor and I don't have time for that, right? and heal, my hair fell out. And just like, wait a minute, you know, I just been ignoring all the warning signs that you can't see it. But right now there's a giant calendar on my wall. There's only thing that's on it are the fact that we take one VIP client a month, just one. So their dates, and one travel activity a month, like not saying it won't be more next year. But that includes family stuff or work, stuff like that, knowing that days out of office are not just the days out of office, it's the time to prepare for it. It's the days afterwards, it's led, like, introvert hangover, when you get home and having that in front of me to it's been so helpful when something comes across my desk of like, well, that can't happen till November. Like just it's they can't. And it's I think it's super hard to to set those boundaries in the beginning to figure out you know, what is too much for yourself, but everything so much more enjoyable.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, and sevens, we have positivity blinders. So we think like, Oh, I couldn't say yes. And then everything's gonna work out, I'll figure it out. Like, that's our, for me, like, that's my catchphrase. Like, oh, I'll figure it out. And like we do, but sometimes that leads us to burnout, or it leads us to flaking on things because we say we're quick to say yes. But then we're also pretty quick to say like, oops, nevermind, I've ever done this. And, you know, type one is going to have like a different approach to that, right? Like our type ones are going to saying, like, oops, nevermind, I can't do this is like not an option. You know, that feels like a really big deal. Whereas for sevens for me saying like, oh, sorry, I can't do that feels fine. But we have to remember that we're interacting with like, not a bunch of sevens. And so when we want to maintain these like healthy relationships, or we want to have like, good networking experiences, it's important that we're impeccable with our word that when we say yes, a yes is a yes and not Yes, unless I change my mind. So the practice there, and I think having those like blockades for ourselves, like intentional limitations is so important. But also even just saying maybe, like just saying, hey, let me think about it so that you're making the decision. Not from a place of, Oh, this feels good to say yes, right now, I don't want to miss out but we get time to like, really assess the data of like, what are the pros and cons here? What's gonna work for me what's not gonna work for me? Talk to someone else, who's maybe a little bit more skeptical than you are? Like, my partner is like, Can we do that? And I'm like, yeah, of course, you know, but like, have them like push you on those things and slow you down a little bit.
Jessica Rasdall
I will but part so much, because Annie is my right hand, get on. She's the one. That's how we keep everything afloat. Me keeping Jess in check, may come to every meeting with it. I get an idea of it. Don't freak out. Like don't don't freak out. It's okay. Like we don't want to act on this, but I have to tell you about it. But you brought up a good point there of like everyone we're interacting with is not the same type as us and I think I'd love to dig into that just a little bit more. As far as thinking about organizers, right? podcast hosts, conference organizers, event planners, I'm sure there Typically a certain type in there, but probably not a seven. How can we be more aware of that they hate the fact that we're interacting with people who aren't maybe are not like us in the sense that turning something down are saying no is okay, maybe somebody who, whose boundaries look a little bit differently.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think that's where we have to decide for ourselves like, what are my what, what do I think is ethical? Really not? Because I think as a seven, I again, I always talk from that perspective, because I can only really speak for myself in that way. But from my perspective, like, I just think everyone should be like me, like, if someone cancels with me, I'm, like, good for you, like, way to take care of yourself, like, I don't have like, a doesn't make me uncomfortable. But for other people, they've planned out their content, you know, for I know, like, like four months in advance, and they don't feel as comfortable pivoting, when things go awry. Or like they, it puts them into a real spin, right? Like if, if I cancel, then they're like, Whoa, now what do I do? Like this was my plan. And, to With that being said, like, I have to think about, first, what do I want to do in terms of how, how, what kind of relationships? Am I trying to form here? What do I want my reputation to be? And also like, how can I make sure this is something I'm doing on purpose, and not something I'm doing on accident? Like, I do think it's a strength to prioritize myself at times like to be able to say, like, Hey, I'm sick today, I can't show up is healthy thing. But I want to make sure that I'm doing that kind of thing on purpose and not as my default. So I think deciding, where do I stand on this? First, what are my boundaries? What are my limitations? What do what do I want my reputation to be? And sticking with that, because I, we can't really read minds, we can't bend in sway to how other people are going to interpret us. We want to be ourselves, we want to be able to show up fully and unapologetically as who we are. But at the same time, you know, we want to make sure that we're living up to the standards we set for ourselves, which obviously set as a seven, it's like, I need to create some limitations and decide what those are. For one, they probably could like, ease up a little bit on themselves, around what their parameters are and what their expectations of other people are. Because people are gonna let you down. And that's also okay. I love all of that so much. Maybe they didn't answer.
Jessica Rasdall
I know, it's so good. But I think it all comes back to right like making sure we're being intentional about what we are saying yes to. So that there's less of those situations where we're feeling like I didn't I don't feel good about my initial decision. Like they were we're having to think about backing out and I want to make sure that you have you know, you have their permission to say no, to opportunities that come across your desk that don't feel like a good fit, like you're not obligated to speak on every stage. Obviously, I want you to go speak on stages, but they're not all going to be a perfect fit. And it's okay to say no.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, and I think when you know, when in enneagram world when we talk about, like different elements of the enneagram. So there's these lines that are like stress and rest lines, and then you have wings, we often talk about, am I doing this on purpose? Or is this happening by accident? Or is this kind of unconscious behavior patterns, and it's the same thing with our enneagram type, like, when we think about the levels of health, like the lower levels of health are really unconscious coping mechanisms that are just kind of controlling us, then the higher levels of health is like when we're doing these things on purpose, and we're doing them intentionally. And I think that's with everything, like when we're thinking about how can I show up in these arenas as the healthiest version of myself? It really comes down to Am I letting my Am I reacting or am I responding? You know, is this is this coming out of a place of like, I need to not feel this feeling or I need to get out of the situation or I need to make sure that people are happy with me I need to please people? Or is it coming from like, what feels good to me? Is this alignment with what my decisions that I have already made? is this coming from a place of like grounded awareness or am I just trying to survive, which because they are enneagram type is really telling us what we think we have to be in order to survive.
Jessica Rasdall
So good. I all of this, like I'm gonna listen to this one 100 times. I can't thank you enough for joining me and I know like so many of our listeners, just give being given that permission slip to lean in to our strengths and sometimes things might look or feel differently than somebody else or how it does for somebody else and that that's okay. So if we're still on the fence, right, we need some more clarity we want to dive more into the NA, gram? Where do we get started? Also, how do we stock you give us all the things?
Unknown Speaker
I definitely want you to buy my book, which is the honest enneagram.
Jessica Rasdall
It's beautiful. I need to make sure I note that like, it's beautiful.
Unknown Speaker
Thank you. That's nice to hear that my husband actually did the illustrations on the inside. So if you want to like, peek at him, he's amazing. He does he. Yeah, he made it really cool. So I appreciate that. And the Yeah, read the book and hang out with me on the podcast if you like to learn audibly, it's the enneagram of coffee podcast, and hang out with me on Instagram at surgeon case.
Jessica Rasdall
And I'll link all of that in the show notes so we can easily go find you. Seriously, thank you so much for joining me this was such a treat. And I know it's gonna be such a blessing to our audience. Thank you. It's always so good to talk to you.
Sarajane Case
Thanks for having me.
Jessica Rasdall
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